It was our "wake-up call" so to say. What do we really believe? What are we willing to live and die for? Call it life transition, call it election-hype, call it what you will...we desire to own our faith and know more about God. Not for the sake of being self-righteous or haughty but truly, to understand how we are to live, parent and minister in this world.
The following video clips are from Mark Driscoll- Pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, WA. The clips are from a few sermons he gave at his church as well as a pastor's conference. He is known for his "sharp tongue" and you will see why. If christian leaders aren't calling into question some of these very topics, who will?
My hope is that you view these videos, not with a sense that I'm taking pot-shots or that I have a heart of dissension, but that you sense a fire to protect the Christian flock from the many deceptions we encounter in churches across America. The point of this discussion isn't just "Yeah! All of this stuff IS bad!"...but WHY is it bad? What do we believe to be true about God/scripture in contrast that brings us to that conclusion? While these clips may make you uncomfortable, even if you disagree, the bottom line is- what is our framework for discernment based upon? Perhaps this is the idea where "fear and trembling comes in... ?:) There needs to be a balance between biblical study and reading/exposing yourself to some of these trends in culture so that we can have a respectable, educated conversation with people in the faith and out.
One of these clips is 10 minutes long, but WELL worth the listen...Please share your thoughts!!
PS- Many pastors we respect have given note to Mark Driscoll despite his seemingly controversial edge. We have just recently discovered him and are currently doing further research on his ministry.
PPS-You will want to turn off the my playlist before you listen. Scroll down the page
PPPS- Yes... I am a current stay-at-home mom that changes diapers, plays Candyland and reads and ponders current trends in today's christian culture...your point? :)
Smile...God Loves You!
4 Streams of the Emerging Church
The Shack- for a full review by Tim Challies, click the link to the right- Shack Review
PS- Many pastors we respect have given note to Mark Driscoll despite his seemingly controversial edge. We have just recently discovered him and are currently doing further research on his ministry.
PPS-You will want to turn off the my playlist before you listen. Scroll down the page
PPPS- Yes... I am a current stay-at-home mom that changes diapers, plays Candyland and reads and ponders current trends in today's christian culture...your point? :)
Smile...God Loves You!
4 Streams of the Emerging Church
The Shack- for a full review by Tim Challies, click the link to the right- Shack Review
and another notable review here.
Warning Against False Teachers
7 comments:
Have you actually read "The Shack?" I thought he did a poor job misrepresenting what it was about and misled his congregation in it. The book was not written to explain the Trinity but, was in reality written as a way for a dad to explain to his kids what his beliefs were. Someone got hold of it and encouraged him to publish it and we all know the rest of the story. But it was never written to become what it has been in the first place. You know how much Tim and I enjoyed the book and, while I don't agree with everything in it, I think it has caused some good discussion between us and encouraged us to look at why we believe things we do: because the church tells us to or because the Bible tells us to. I only watched two of the clips, the first one on Joel Osteen and the one on "The Shack" but I plan on watching the other 2 during naptime. So far, though, I would have to say I would be cautious and discerning in listening to him as much as to Joel Osteen.
Andrea- Admittedly, I have not read the Shack yet, only read some outlines and review. I will be picking up copy soon as I want to read it for myself. Anyway, if you actually go to Youtube and watch this clip, there is a myriad of blogger comments below it. It's an interesting argument if anything.
Here is what I am gathering from it- he is not saying that the author's purpose in writing this book was only to explain the trinity, but that, many people are taking away this theme and are taking some of these ideas as "gospel" and taking away other themes that just aren't biblical.
While there may be other admirable themes throughout- which I can comment on further once I've read it- the reason I found this thought-provoking is because some people run to works of fiction for an explanation of the "truth", when they should be running to the bible, respectable pastors and above all, praying for God's spirit to instruct their hearts.
For many, they go to the christian bookstore and pick up any ol' book thinking "it must be OK because it's 'christian'". I daresay that it is WRONG to read other written works that can enlighten us to things, but the main source of our truth-base should be the bible and the bible alone.
If this author is a Christian, which I gather that he would profess to be, he must be very careful in how he represents his worldview so that it is CLEAR and not misleading. People are easily duped and led astray into all kinds of myths (see 2 Tim. 4). Not all people of course are. You and I have enjoyed growing up in christian homes, christian schools...we have a wealth of support systems around us that can help us to discern culture in light of scripture...but not everyone does.
My main goal in posting these was this- let's be aware of the culture trends around us, let's hold them next to the rubric set before us in scripture. Agree with him or not, one can't argue that he is also asking people to see this book in a different light...and I think that is the very thing that you are saying too....
"i read your blog & so agree w/you! we have so many friends here who go to mars hill (rob bells's church) & its scarey they can't back up what they believe! if we even try to have any kind of Biblical discussion w/them they all get very defensive & label us as "closeminded/judging". # 2 i read the shack (for our church's book club-& the only reason it was suggested for that club was b/c it is controversial & so popular. needless to say NO ONE in our book club liked it!) we were all very uncomfortable with the way the trinity was portrayed. One woman pointed out (as you did) how scarey it is that so many people are turning to this book for "answers" or whatever. So many "christians" are tollerating way too much liberalism!"
--Beth
And I think that is where in our culture we are so wrong- by accepting things "Christian" as Truth rather than checking the Bible - I absoutely agree with you in that. I don't think that in today's society we open our Bibles enough; people just accept what their pastors preach or what they read.
Like I said, there were things in the book that I did not agree with. Then there were parts that I thought he did an amazing job explaining...like the issue of fogiveness. I read the review you posted and disagreed whole-heartedly with the reviewer on the issue of only forgiving people who repent, as it seems many of the commenters on his review did as well. It is hard to forgive people who have hurt or wronged us when they don't think they have done anything wrong - but it is necessary and crucial in our lives. Sometimes it takes years to get to that point, but God tells us to forgive and so we must.
From what I can tell, most people liked The Shack because it brought about healing to a hurt in their life. I think that people who read it and are not ready to forgive someone who has hurt them are not going to like the book.
Anyways, we can talk more about it after you have read it.
On a side note, I did agree with him about the emergent liberals and the seriousness of false prophets. Personally, I'm starting to lean toward house church.
Wow, great thought-provoking stuff here!
The first video made me want to ask Joel Osteen to do a simple search on biblegateway.com for the word suffering in the NIV New Testament. How in the world does he explain all the scriptures that say we are to rejoice in our suffering, join with Christ in His suffering, etc. or even consider it pure joy when we face trials? (James 2:2).
I liked how Mark Driscoll outlined the 4 lanes in the second video. There was some stuff I’m not sure about in his explanations, though. I’d like to hear more about what he thinks of spiritual gifts today. If you come across videos of his about that, I’d like to know.
Interesting review of The Shack. I need to read it, too. Or maybe I just shouldn’t waste my time with it! :) Since I work in Christian fiction, I completely understand wanting to use allegory, analogies…stories! to help explain biblical concepts. Jesus did it with the parables in the Bible. But Jesus was Jesus! His stories were perfect and they perfectly explained His Truth. We are human and sinful, and human authors have to be VERY careful that they don’t mislead and cause others to stumble or portray their work as a replacement for the Word of God. I recently encouraged my blog readers/authors (and myself for that matter!) to be constantly praying the words of David in Psalm 51. To do anything right for God we have to constantly ask Him to get our sin out of the way so that we can correctly portray His truth. David says: “Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me. THEN (emphasis mine) I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will turn back to you.”
And what a great analogy about false teachers. Because he loves his son and would be scared for him in danger, of course he would use attention-getting speech, not nicey-nice words so as not to hurt feelings. In a world where non-Christians are so very bold in speaking out against everything biblical, how much more do we need to be bold and stand up for the Truth. I find it so scary to do, but I think it’s something God’s working on me about.
Thanks for sharing these things, Deidra, and encouraging conversation about them!
JoAnne
Oops - make that James 1:2! :)
JoAnne
Way to bring up tough topics deidra! i love this stuff. i am not going to comment on the videos, though i would love to read them i do not have alot of time to right now. :) however i will comment on the Shack. frankly, i LOVED it and found it tremendously healing. i do not struggle with taking things from a fiction perspective and forming a theology based on the book. so that was not an issue for me. he did not write it with the intention that it would be used or seen as truth. it was his personal healing process and the way that he views God. i loved that in order for him to really hear God, God came to him as a woman. i think that part of his book really scares people because it could give a whole different perspective to how we view our diety. i thought the way he discribed the Trinity was beautiful, refreshing and soooo thought provoking. anyway just something to munch on. You really must read it. this whole thing really reminds me of all the controversy that surounded the Davinici Code and bottom line to me is that it is fiction and those who don't read it as such really need to examine why they don't. Lydia
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